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1988-08-02 Special Info On County Ditch No. 9 . INFOmtATIONAL MEETlOO ON <XlUNTY DITCH NUMBER 9 AOOUST 2, 1988 Mayor Loretta Roden called the informational meetmg regardmg County Ditch Number 9 to order and introduced Thore Meyer of Meyer-Roblin, who was to . present the fmchng of facts regarding the storm water run off from the WESTW1ND development The list of those attendrng has been attached to the back of this document Thore explamed that th1S meeting had been called at the County CoIrm1ss1oner's and Ditch 9 Ccmnittees request so that the property owners along County Ditches Numbers 9 and 21 could hear what 1S being proposed for the area that had been the Michael Becker farm prior to being PJ.rchased and developed by John-George, 100 Thore f1rst mtroduced those present to the details of the plans for Phase I of WESTW1ND and the proposal for the subsequent phases of II and II I, which include the possible installation of a detention pond to hold the storm water run off The d1BCU6sion included these findings of facts * That the developnent of WESTWIND will be completed m phases, at which time storm sewer, streets, sewer and water will be deslglled to adequately handle the developnent as 1 t occurs . . . . INFOBMATION MEETlOO PAGE 2 * That WESTWIND (Phase I) consl.st of 52 sl.Ilgle-faml.ly lots, 4 multl.ple family lots and 14 2 acres of park land (Attachment A), which consists of approximately 18 acres of land * That approxJ.mately two-thirds of the entire plat (105 acres) dral.nB to the south into County Ditch 9, while the remainrng one-third drains northeasterly into School Lake * That m designing a system that can adequately handle ram for a developnent the Engineers design the storm sewer system for a fl.ve year storm Thore went on to explain that it l.S standard engineering practice to size storm sewer system in this manner because of the expense involved in installation In the event that the storm brings the water faster then the sewer system can handel it temporary ponding occurs in the street, which wl.II then eventually drain away (typically water does not stand for more than an hour or so) * That the purpose of a detention pond is to hold water m a confmed area untl.l the water can drain away at the same rate l. t would have l.f the land had been left in its natural state This is accomphshed by restrl.ctrng the water and forcrng l.t to outlet through a downsl.ze culvert which l.S located at the bottom of the pond * That the design of proposed detentl.on pond was done only after dorng the necessary calculations to determme the number of acre feet needed to adequately handle the storm water run-off from the WESTWIND developnent The Engineers calculations mdicated that the . . . INFORMATION MEETI~ PAGE 3 pond needs to 'be approximately 11 5 acre feet to detention. wh1.ch can 'be obtained in a variety of ways . either by a large shallow pond or a pond that takes up less land mass wt 1.6 001.1 t deeper to retain the water * The Engineers explained that the actual desl.gn of the pond has not . been determined wt it appears that in all likelihood the pond would 'be developed 60 that the base of the pond would 'be approxlmately 2 feet above the base of the County Ditch and would have a substantial dike system around the three sides of it as well as around the entire park so not to create any hardship to the adJoining properties (Attachment B) It 1.6 important to note that the detention pond would 'be done m conJtmction W1. th the park. knowing that in the event of heavy downpours the pond could have a potential to back up into the playing fields * It was pointed out as an example that W1.th the d1.ke system around the pond that 1.f water reached the top of the dike that the area would 'be holdUlg some 45 acre feet or 4 times the aJJlO\IDt of water going into the ditch. which is a reality to an tmlikely extreme At this time the d1.6CUBsion was opened for questions. which included some of the following * Has the dra:ina8e system been adequately designed for Phases II and III? . . . INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 4 Thore explained that the actual design of the detention pond/storm sewer system will be designed and calculated so that 1t will be able to handle the storm water run-off It was also pointed out the definition of a 1Q0 year storm 1S 6 inches of rain in 24 hours * Harry Welter, Mayor of St Michael expressed his City r s conce:rn regarding the ~t of the City of Albertv11le r s water on Regal . Creek wh1ch runs through their corporate boundaries and asked what assurance they have that there will not be problems further down the road? Agam 1 t was pointed out that by the use of the detention pond the rate of discharge w111 not change, therefore the City of Michael should not receive any additional water from the City of Albertville I t was pointed out that the basis for this statement relys on the fact that the County ditch system 1S cleaned and is being mamtained properly by the County Board, because it falls under their jur16dict1on * The quest10n was asked regarding how the water would be controlled? Thore explained that the control for such a structure will be done by placing a culvert in at the bottom of the pond which would then let the water out at a prescribed rate It was pointed out that there would be no gate valve located on the outlet to allow water to be released at a faster rate then allowed . INFORMATION MEETINJ PAGE 5 * Someone asked what the differences in elevations would be between the County ditch. the detention pond and the tope of the dikes? The floor of the d1. tch appears to be at an elevation 944 feet aoove sea level. the base of the pond would be constructed at approxmately 946 feet aoove sea level and the tope of the dikes would be about 3 or 4 feet . higher then the pond (or approximately 952 feet aoove sea level) * The concern was expressed that work would be done and the other land owners would not know anything about it . Arlyn Nelson. County Coo.mi8sion. stated that under the proceed.mgs of ditch law. any time work is done on a County ditch that the benefitting property owners IDl6t receive notice of improvement So those present. who are on the County ditch have the assurances that they will be aware of what 1.S happening * Someone quest1.oned who would be responsible for cleanmg out the ditch? I t was pointed out that the City has no control over the cleaning of a County dJ.tch, that it would be the responsibility of the Board to arrange for the cleaning and that work would be assessed back to the benefitting property owners once a Redetermination of Find:mg had been completed . . . . INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 6 At this t1lDe Thore reminded everyone that the original pn:'p06e for dl.tches were to RECLAIM lands for farmlJ:lg that without proper dralIlage would not be tillable He also pointed out that these dl.tches were designed so that they followed the natural drainage ways, therefore not disrupting the laws of nature And under current practices the ditches are also used for drainage outlet storm water, wl.thout the benefit of clear Statutory language to define what is acceptable practices * One of the parties present pointed out that in fact the ditch is not draining properly beC8JlBe of not being cleaned out It appears that the last t1lDe the ditch was cleaned out was in 1983 Ar lyn Nelson pointed out that the County does not go forth W1 th ditch cleaning unless it is requested by those that will benefit from the work * There was some questions regarding the City's sewer system and whether or not the storm water run-off could go through those lines? It was explained that the WES'IWIND proJect would be serviced with City sewer and water, wt that it is not allowable under Minnesota Pollution Control Agency regulations to discharge storm water run-off into the sewer system INFORMATION MEETIOO . . . PAGE 7 At th~s time City staff went through the materials which were handed out to the pu-ticipates in the meeting The packet included the following 1 A letter from Mr George Yankoupe of Jolm-George, Inc di6CU66ing the plattrng of WESTWIND (Phase I) and its :unpact on County Dl.tch Number 9 , . 2 A letter from Meyer-Rohlin Engineers-Land Surveyors which provl.des the fmdings for the basis of the Yankoupe letter, 3 J I I'll A portion of the mmutes of the I l ( , \ / , 1988 County Board minutes regarchng the City of Albertvl.lle' s assurance that to take full liability /responsibili ty for findings of the Engmeer with regards to the l.Q)aCt of Phase I on County Ditch Number 9, and 4 The Cl.ty of Albertville's RESOLurIOO RELATIOO TO SURFACE WATER IN WESTWIND DEVKLOPMENI', which provides written assurance that the City of Albertville does indeed warrant the findings of the City Engineer and will accept liability and responsibill. ty resulting from surface water drainage from proposed developnent as such developnent (first phase) ~ts on Ditch Number 9 The resolution provides additional assurances that as a condit1on of further developnent, the developer will need to Join in a process which will include the interested pu-ties (i e the Cl. ty, Wright County, the dral.ll8ge authority and the owners of benefitted landowners) to addresa the impact of Phases II and III, including INFORMATION MEETlt{; . PAGE 8 phY6Ical faCIlItIes, COSt6 approprl~t~ re60lutlon of DItch Number 9 and other mattero relatuJf!" t..o the proper and the dralIlage and d16e-harge of surface watero mto At UUb tI me BOlb MIller, the Cl ty Attorney, addressed the CIty s standmg on tbu, lfJbue He pOInte<i out that the CouncIl supports the f1fldmg6 of the EngIneer and pa.66ed the resolutIon regardlng Un6 IW:ltter 096 the vot~ of con f Idencp HI the findIngs He POInted out that the CIty haS flPw"r talr'9n Hie stand th9.t a petItIon for outlet should not be flIed and In fa0t 6et torth ~SSUraIICeS tJlat prlOr to any future platting bemg apprnved that t,he GI ty wIll . proceed undr-r tbe Statutory regulatIons for completIng the proces6 The repreE..entatIve of the CIty of St MIchael stated that If theIr CIty was not satIsfIed ~nth the solUtI0no pree,ented that they would be forced t..o e,tc>}J the W3.t,er from dralnmg through Regal Creek He stated that no on~ had ~vpr appr'l."Jched tbem tJo see if they approved of the draInage plan It wab agalIl POlIlted out that the development of WI:!.STWINlJ l.lt.>f>b not changA the natur9.l dramage flow but rather changps the rateG at WhICh the water rune" t-Jut thctt through the controls established thrOl..lgh th.= f-'VenIng s dlbClJSbl.un~. sbnulrl. not h;we any adverse l.n'1~lct on the pelJple downBtream of the devr.:lupment It wat-... queLtloned whether or not the CIty of St MIchael was attemptIng tu bthP AH;et'tvllle from developmg through thp prcJCee,e, of tYIng the dramage 160l)e up !'here wae, no real c...IlIlII'Ient back m response to thlG E..tatenent . I NWlRMAT [ON MEB-:Tlt-G . PAGE 9 At this time Bob Miller pointed out that the City of Albertville has ordered a feasib1li ty report on the storm water drainage plan for the undeveloped areas of the City It 18 the City's intent to use the findings of this study to determine which is the beet outlet for storm water run-off In an effort to B1..1DIDal'ize the is6Ue at hand. Bob rev1ewed with the parties present that the project (Phase I) is on the table. the engineering studies no adverse i..mPact on Ditch 9. the City has agreed to take the . resPOllB1bil1ty for Phase I and the City is currently undertakmg the study for future storm water dralllage He asked what JOOre needed to be done or said before the County and the land owners had enough assurances that the City is . work:mg in the best interest of those involved Bob also explained that all ooom.m.i ties are faced with the problem of what to do with storm water and that in JOOSt situations the problems can be resolved without hurting anyone Some other questions that where brought up included * Who would maintain the detent10n pond? The group was informed that it would be part of the City' 6 general maintenance program The group was also informed that when the pond is drained dry that the City will keep the area mowed so not to effect the detention pond storage space . INFORMATION MEETlOO . . . PAGE 10 * Someone <XIIIInented on whether or not that meant the farmers would be doubled taxes? It was explained that the maintenance of storm sewer systems is a regular maintenance item which makes up part of the tax levy It was pomted out that the developnent will generate additional tax dollars which in effect will COIQPensate for any addi tl.onal costs . * Someone asked if the City was planning on lining the base of the detention pond in the same fashion as the Waste Water Treatment Facill. ty was lined? It was explained that there was no reason to go to tl1at expense because the purpose of that liner is keep from contaminating the soils Storm water run-off does not need to be separated and treated before discharging Again the p..trpOBe of the detention pond was explained, that the reason for thl.S tyPe of system is to provide for short-term storage of water until the ditch or the ground around the ponds can take on the water It was also pointed out that detention ponds are used in most cities and are accepted as a standard method of storm water removal At this pomt someone expressed their concern that this issue has been taking place without anyone knowing about it In an effort to clarify what has happened up to this point, Arlyn Nelson presented a chronolQ8Y of events INFORMATION MEETIl'I3 "II . PltGE 11 1 County Officials noticed that Preliminary Plat for the entire WESTWIND project showed outlet of water into County Ditch lbDber 9. 2 Representatives of the City and the Developer met with the County Board to explain the proposal and att.eqJted to come up with a solution which would be satisfactory to all those involved 3 Ar lyn Nelson called to order the meeting of the County Ditch 9 OOIIIDittee to review with them the issue of WESTWIND. This meetu.a was held at the Frankfort Town Hall 4 '!he City and the developers met &pin with the County Board to d1saJss . and ~te them on the events to date. It was at this meeting that the City Attorney gave the City's assuranoe that Albertville would take the responsibility of liability with reprds to the impact of Fbase I on the County ditch 5 '!he City of Albertville passed the resolution supporting the Attorney's assurances. 6. A meetin8 was held at the WKSTWIND site with the County Ditch 9 Coamittee, Arlyn Nelson , City representatives and the developers to see hands on the effects to the ditch. It was at this meetina the City agreed to host the informational meeting. 7. '!he Information meetin8 was held. . INFORMATION MEETItf1 'I . PAGE 12 Arlyn polnted out that ill order to stop the work from bemg done. the County would have to prove harm if. being done frrJ[fJ the result of the l.IIIProvement There would have to a d~fferent flnd1llg of fact that t,he Engmeer S report lS mcorrect and that these ClJstf. would have to be borne by those on the dl tch I t was her feelmg that thls was not necef.sary Bob Mlller agam stated that the Clty 't'P,al1zef. thnt Phaf.e II and 1 TT hav.... potentlal lmpact on the dit..ch and agree that oofore any work ] 0 done loll th rP..,gards to thebe phases that the ell tch lsSUe w~11 have to J:x:> reool ved He prebLed the pc J1 nt that th If. lS reql.ured ill the statu tR af. w- 1] k. hf' 1 rlJ? responsIble a6 a Clty He stated thct.t Uno was pnAJctblv Just the begummg lJ1 . the way rrJl'-'etlfJgfJ rt~gm-dHlg thIS Jf.sue anJ that the CJty wlll rr~IVf-> I nUt]llllbly m maklng ",my de.:UJlonL At thIS pcnnt Bob asked tha1J the mcttter be wralJped np hy 3. onpl:nrt of confldence 1ll the f1lldmgs of the meet rng He aoked that :mvon.... f.trorl€.ly opposPd tn the ldea IndIcate lt by a show of r.ands The notes bhouJd bhow that only one person ralsOO thelr hand There were no other cormnents so the meetulg adJoulTled ~ .