1991-01-14 CC Minutes Special
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CITY OF ALBERTVILLE
P. O. BOX 131
ALBERTVILLE, MINNESOTA 55301
PHONE: (612) 497-3384
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
MINUTES
JANUARY 14, 1991
A special meeting of the Albertville City Council was called
to order by Mayor Jim Walsh. Members present included Duane
Berning, Donatus Vetsch, Don Cornelius and Mark Barthel. Others
present included Maureen Andrews, Bob Miller, Bill Radzwil1 and
Kevin Mealhouse.
The purpose for the evening's meeting was to discuss the
appointment of the Building Inspector and City Attorney.
Before getting into the discussion regarding the City
Attorney, Mayor Walsh stated that he wanted to deal with the
Building Inspector's position first. Mayor Walsh stated that he
wanted to amend his appointments and instead recommend Kevin
Mealhouse as the City Building Inspector.
A motion to accept the appointment of Kevin Mealhouse as
Building Inspector was made by Don Cornelius and seconded by Mark
Barthel. All were in favor and the motion carried.
The contract for the Building Inspector will be discussed and
reviewed at Tuesday January 22nd Council meeting.
The next discussion was on the appointment of the City
Attorney. Mayor Walsh provided the Council with a letter from Mr.
Bill Radzwi11 providing his credentials to be the City Attorney.
Mayor Walsh stated that he was still maintaining his position that
he wanted to change City Attorney.
Donatus Vetsch asked for an explanation from Bill Radzwill
regarding his involvement in Tax Increment Financing. Bill stated
that he had done two projects in Dassel, four in Cokato, two in
Buffalo, one in Princeton and one in Chisholm to name some, noting
that he had done 12 or 13 projects all together.
He also stated that he has sold between 100 and 130 bond
issues, which included at least 30 waste~ater treatment facilities.
He noted that he had sold these bonds, doing the work from
beginning to end. A combined number of bonding issues are
approximately 140 projects included the Tax Increment Financing.
Bill also noted that the bond sizes have ranged from $100,000.00
to $2,000,000.00.
Make our City. , . . . . . . Your City
We invite Home, Industry, Business
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Donatus Vetsch then asked if Bill does all the paperwork for
bonding. Bill stated that he does all the work on the bond except
for the certification. He pointed out that he can not certify the
bonds, but is tied into Holmes and Graven and David Kennedy and
they would do the certification for the City.
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He noted that in one instance a bond sale ran $6.500.00 for
the work he did and $2.000.00 for the bond certification. This
included all the work from start to finish. He gave several
examples of communi ties in which he saved money. . One of the
examples he gave was Montrose. He noted that he can sell the bonds
directly for a point to a point and half below market price.
He state that he is able to do the same work that a firm like
Juran and Moody for a lot less money. Noting that there is nothing
magic. but he sees the project both ways.
Bill pointed out that public bond sales have only been done
within the past 15 years. prior to the use of public sales, all
bonds were sold through the local attorney.
Bill noted that he had 20 years experience and was one of the
few attorneys working exclusively in municipal work.
When asked if certifications for bond sale have to be done.
the Council was informed that yes the certification has to be done
prior to the sale of the bonds.
Bill informed the Council that he works on a hourly bases and
noted that he has done six negotiated sales and 5 public sales.
The bonds have ranged from $100.000.00 to $450.000.00 in size.
At this time Bob Miller was asked by Donatus Vetsch if there
was anything he wanted to comment on. Bob stated that he had
worked with the City of Albertville for the past three and half
years and is currently working for the City of Rogers. He noted
that he also served as the City Attorney for the City of New Hope,
noting that he had 20 years experience working as a City Attorney.
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Bob pointed out that as a matter of policy Bond Counsel has
provided the legal opinion for the bonds he has been involved with.
He noted that he has been involved with the work prior to the sale
of bonds but that he does not merchandize the bonds. Bob noted
that this has been Council policy.
Bob also noted that the City has worked with Holmes and Graven
in the past but are now using Briggs and Morgan.
Bob informed the Council that he would not want to do the bond
structuring and merchandizing of the bonds because it is not his
area of expertise.
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Bill stated that in Buffalo he did a whole bond sale for
$8,000.00 and if Juran and Moody had done the work it would have
cost the City $32,0000.00 to do the sale. At the same time it cost
the County $80,000.00 to do a $2,000,000.00 sale.
He also noted that in all the sales that he has done that Mr.
Kennedy has certified that $6 ;500.00 is the most he has ever
charged. If Doresy or Openheimer had done the work that the same
work would have cost $18,000.00.
When questioned whether or not the City could be protected
against too large of a bill, it was noted that there was a
possibility of working in a percentage of which the hourly rate
could not go over.
Bill suggested that the Council work with all of there
consultants on an hourly basis instead of a percentage basis to
save money.
He noted that he works for 50 townships and 2 cities and that
it works out quite well.
Don Cornelius state that he did not see that there was a
guarantee that the costs would not go over what we have been
charged in the past. He stated that he would like to see a hourly
charge with a maximum ceiling tied to it be used to provide extra
control over the system.
Donatus Vetsch asked about the conflict of interest with Bill
Radzwill working for the City of Albertville and Otsego. Bill
state that if this became a problem he would have to withdraw
completely from the matter, serving neither city.
Bill at this time suggested that a joint meeting with the City
of Otsego be schedule so there is more working together. He stated
that he felt that there was more conflict between Otsego and Elk
River than there is between Albertville and Otsego.
He noted that there had been a joint workshop between Elk
River and Otsego and he has served as an advisor to Otsego while
looking at their situation.
Issues he feels that the cities will be looking at are Police
Protection and Fire Service.
The matter of "annexation" was brought up.
he would suggest sitting down together before a
noting that he felt that he would be able to get
hand.
Bill noted that
conflict arose,
to the issue at
Bill noted that he does 50% of the contested Annexations in
the State of Minnesota. And further noted that in the case of
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Albertville and Otsego the matter would handle through a detachment
which could not be done unless both parties were in agreement and
if there was an exchange of land from both parties.
He was questioned if this was true even in the event that it
was requested by the property owners. Bill noted that the only
basis this would be done on is in the area of health matters i.e.
the ability to provide public services. In this instance the
detachment would be allowed.
He pointed out that the City of Albertville would have a hard
time arguing the point because of the amount of agriculture land
the City has left to develop within the corporate boundaries.
Duane Berning asked Bob Miller if he agreed with Bill r s
opinion. He stated that yes he agreed, that there would need to
be joint powers agreement as there have been in Rogers and Hassen.
The matter of fees were then discussed. Bob Miller stated
that he charges $50.00 a hour for Council meetings and $95.00 a
hour for non related meetings.
Bill stated that he charges $11010.00 a hour and all of his
expenses are included in this fee, noting that there are no hidden
costs.
Don asked what he would charge for meetings. It was noted
that he would charge $1100.00 an hour. Bill noted that he charges
$42.00 a hour for administrative services to cover staff time.
There was a question regarding how much was legal fees ran in
1990. It was noted that some of these cost are charged to
projects, councilor general budget line items.
Jim Walsh stated that he did not feel that the City Attorney
was needed at every meeting. He state the if an issue needed the
City Attorney's attention he can be notified for the next meeting
or a request for information can be faxed to him prior to the
meeting.
It was pointed out that if there are items on the Agenda then
it should be scheduled so that there are just there for the legal
portion of the meeting and not the whole thing. Noting that timing
of he appearance makes for the most efficient meeting.
Bill stated that he has been at all of Otesgo's meetings since
there is no end of problems because of the change to "City" status.
Bill also stated that he is sure that he can save the bucks
for the City.
Bill was asked if Council members are able to contact him as
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they see fit. He stated that normally just the Mayor and the City
Administrator are the only ones who contact him as a way to keep
the costs down.
Bob Miller stated the he felt that there was an advantage of
the City Attorney being at th~ meeting because they can get a
better feel for the wishes of the Council and from the comments
that are made and explanations that are given. An example he gave
was the Ordinance for the Outdoor Bars.
A question .was raised regarding how much the bill normally
runs for Council meetings. Bob stated that this was a fair
question noting the normally the bill runs about $150.00 a meeting
or $300.00 a month. Bob did note that he was willing to attend
every meeting or only on an as needed basis. which ever is the
Council's wishes.
Bob again pointed out that he has been the City Attorney for
three and a half years, noting that he has done the more mundane
work not bond work, He noted that he prepares the needed
resolutions, planning and zoning documents, developer agreements
and letter of credits to name some of the work he does. He does
not have the experience in structuring the bond sales and does not
want to try to do them.
Bob stressed his expertise in other areas of municipal work.
land use and subdivision work and has been before the State Supreme
Court. He noted that he has a strong background of information and
a good working relationship with the other staff. He also stated
that he feels that he has done a good job for the City for an
efficient cost.
He stated that he would like to work for the City, but noted
that if the City wants someone to do bonding work, then he
suggested that Bill could do the work.
Don Cornelius stated that he did not doubt that Bob had done
a good job, He also noted that he felt the issue regarding have
the local attorney do the bond counsel work, tax increment
financing, as well as the general legal work rather confusing.
Donatus Vetsch agreed with Don Cornelius and stated that he
wanted to assure Bob Miller that he thought he had been doing a
good job.
Duane Berning asked Bob Miller is there was a problem with the
City Attorney doing the bond work. Bob stated that he has not seen
this practice in other cities he is aware of.
Bill also informed the Council that had three years of
Engineering at Purdue University, before he went on to pursue his
degree in Law. He stated that he feels that the engineering
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background gives him projects from start to finish.
Duane then asked Bill if there would be a conflict with
meetings. Bill stated that usually no conflict because he tries to
schedule them so there is no overlap in schedules.
Bob Miller stated to the Council that most of them know him
since he has been the City Attorney for the past 3.5 years and
noted that his former law partner had been the attorney for 7 years
before coming a judge. He noted that the long history can work to
the City's advantage. He stated that he has 30 years of experience
and is currently working for the City of Rogers and has been the
City Attorney there for 25 years.
Bill Radzwil1 stated that he was close at hand and was also
available by car phone when he is not in his office.
Don Cornelius asked that the appointment of City Attorney be
held off until Tuesday night's meeting so the Council could have
some time to think about the information that was given at the
meeting. Mayor Walsh asked why the Council would want to hold off
making the decision since that the was purpose of the meeting. Don
again stated that he wanted time to think about the matter some
more. Donatus Vetsch agreed with Don Cornelius.
A motion was made to table the decision on the City Attorney
until the Tuesday, January 22nd meeting, The motion was made by
Donatus Vetsch and seconded by Don Cornelius. The minutes should
. reflect that Barthel, Cornelius and Vetsch voted to table the
decision and Berning voted to abstain. The motion carried.
The matter of the contract with the Building Inspector was
brought up again by Duane Berning. He asked if there was a problem
if the contract was not discussed until Tuesday evening. Maureen
stated that she did not think there was a problem with delaying the
approval of the contract and suggested that the City Attorney draft
the contract.
Mayor Walsh stated he felt that any contract being entered
into between the City and personnel should be drafted at the
employee's expense and not the City's. Maureen stated that she had
used the wrong term when she said "draft", rather should have said
"review".
Mayor Walsh then asked Maureen who had prepared the contract
between the City Administrator and the City. She noted that she
had provided some of the document, which was then reviewed and
changes made by Bob Miller, the City Attorney, at the Council's
request.
At this time it was noted that there was no other discussion
noted for the meeting so the meeting had come to a conclusion.
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Mayor Walsh stated that he felt the meeting had provided a
good discussion and felt that the City could save money for the
developer by having the City Attorney do as much of the bonding
work as possible. He stated that he felt that the City is lagging
in the areas of commercial and retail development and hopefully by
keeping bonding costs down there will be an increase in this type
of development. .
Mayor Walsh also noted that the residential development that
the City is experiencing adds to the school age population and puts
added burden on the School District.
The matter of having the City Attorney at every meeting for
the entire meeting was discussed again. Mayor Walsh restated his
feelings that it is not necessary.
There was some discussion regarding where the savings is if
Bob Miller charges $50.00 per hour for meetings and Bill Radzwill
charges $100.00 per meeting. Mayor Walsh stated that the savings
come into the picture during the financing of bonds, because these
costs are past on to developers and then to the tax payers at the
time of purchasing land.
Donatus Vetsch asked that Maureen get together information on
a past bond issue (approximately $450,000.00) to see what actual
cost are on the issue.
Don Cornelius stated that he felt that there was expertise the
City is paying for because the Financial Advisor and Bond Counsel
do this type of work everyday. Mayor Walsh compared it to the
"baseball player and agent... He noted that until agents became
involved in the process that player were making less money, now it
is costing the owners more money, which is then passed onto the
ticket buyers.
Mayor Walsh again stated the Bill Radzwil1 has assured him
that the City will be saving money having him do the work. Don
Cornelius stated that he felt that Juran and Moody has more
knowledge of the market and bonding process. Mayor Walsh said
maybe not.
The issue of having current financial statements will help
keep tabs on the expenses incurred for legal work as well as other
areas.
Some other general discussion was again reviewed. There was
a question regarding Bill Radzwill was referring to the City of
Buffalo or Buffalo Township. Buffalo was not listed in Bill's
letter.
Finally Mayor Walsh noted that he is willing to turn around
his decision as he had in the case of Kevin Mealhouse. He noted
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that his was proud to. change his opinion. He also noted that he
wants to work closely with Kevin in the case of the construction
of the new school.
Mayor Walsh informed the Council that he would be meeting with
Thore Meyer on Tuesday morning to discuss storm drainage and
sanitary sewer expansion.
A motion was made to adjourn. The motion was made by Donatus
Vetsch and seconded by Don Cornelius. All were in favor and the
motion adjourned.
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