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1991-01-14 CC Minutes Special , \. - .,~., CITY OF ALBERTVILLE P. O. BOX 131 ALBERTVILLE, MINNESOTA 55301 PHONE: (612) 497-3384 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES JANUARY 14, 1991 A special meeting of the Albertville City Council was called to order by Mayor Jim Walsh. Members present included Duane Berning, Donatus Vetsch, Don Cornelius and Mark Barthel. Others present included Maureen Andrews, Bob Miller, Bill Radzwil1 and Kevin Mealhouse. The purpose for the evening's meeting was to discuss the appointment of the Building Inspector and City Attorney. Before getting into the discussion regarding the City Attorney, Mayor Walsh stated that he wanted to deal with the Building Inspector's position first. Mayor Walsh stated that he wanted to amend his appointments and instead recommend Kevin Mealhouse as the City Building Inspector. A motion to accept the appointment of Kevin Mealhouse as Building Inspector was made by Don Cornelius and seconded by Mark Barthel. All were in favor and the motion carried. The contract for the Building Inspector will be discussed and reviewed at Tuesday January 22nd Council meeting. The next discussion was on the appointment of the City Attorney. Mayor Walsh provided the Council with a letter from Mr. Bill Radzwi11 providing his credentials to be the City Attorney. Mayor Walsh stated that he was still maintaining his position that he wanted to change City Attorney. Donatus Vetsch asked for an explanation from Bill Radzwill regarding his involvement in Tax Increment Financing. Bill stated that he had done two projects in Dassel, four in Cokato, two in Buffalo, one in Princeton and one in Chisholm to name some, noting that he had done 12 or 13 projects all together. He also stated that he has sold between 100 and 130 bond issues, which included at least 30 waste~ater treatment facilities. He noted that he had sold these bonds, doing the work from beginning to end. A combined number of bonding issues are approximately 140 projects included the Tax Increment Financing. Bill also noted that the bond sizes have ranged from $100,000.00 to $2,000,000.00. Make our City. , . . . . . . Your City We invite Home, Industry, Business ._..~. .....-.,... '" ~.. ~ --.. .. _......_,-- ~ .. .. .. . . ..' ..:,,_....... .~.._ "..... .........,_..... --' _..~ .... -.. . _.~. ......... r..... .'........ . .. .' ._. _.. . (. (. c. ~-'-"-._-_.-..-..... ..__... .------.. ......-.-,-.---.--- ..... -.. --'~,._,." ..,.: ....-.---..-,,---..- J Donatus Vetsch then asked if Bill does all the paperwork for bonding. Bill stated that he does all the work on the bond except for the certification. He pointed out that he can not certify the bonds, but is tied into Holmes and Graven and David Kennedy and they would do the certification for the City. . He noted that in one instance a bond sale ran $6.500.00 for the work he did and $2.000.00 for the bond certification. This included all the work from start to finish. He gave several examples of communi ties in which he saved money. . One of the examples he gave was Montrose. He noted that he can sell the bonds directly for a point to a point and half below market price. He state that he is able to do the same work that a firm like Juran and Moody for a lot less money. Noting that there is nothing magic. but he sees the project both ways. Bill pointed out that public bond sales have only been done within the past 15 years. prior to the use of public sales, all bonds were sold through the local attorney. Bill noted that he had 20 years experience and was one of the few attorneys working exclusively in municipal work. When asked if certifications for bond sale have to be done. the Council was informed that yes the certification has to be done prior to the sale of the bonds. Bill informed the Council that he works on a hourly bases and noted that he has done six negotiated sales and 5 public sales. The bonds have ranged from $100.000.00 to $450.000.00 in size. At this time Bob Miller was asked by Donatus Vetsch if there was anything he wanted to comment on. Bob stated that he had worked with the City of Albertville for the past three and half years and is currently working for the City of Rogers. He noted that he also served as the City Attorney for the City of New Hope, noting that he had 20 years experience working as a City Attorney. . Bob pointed out that as a matter of policy Bond Counsel has provided the legal opinion for the bonds he has been involved with. He noted that he has been involved with the work prior to the sale of bonds but that he does not merchandize the bonds. Bob noted that this has been Council policy. Bob also noted that the City has worked with Holmes and Graven in the past but are now using Briggs and Morgan. Bob informed the Council that he would not want to do the bond structuring and merchandizing of the bonds because it is not his area of expertise. 2 (. (. (. , Bill stated that in Buffalo he did a whole bond sale for $8,000.00 and if Juran and Moody had done the work it would have cost the City $32,0000.00 to do the sale. At the same time it cost the County $80,000.00 to do a $2,000,000.00 sale. He also noted that in all the sales that he has done that Mr. Kennedy has certified that $6 ;500.00 is the most he has ever charged. If Doresy or Openheimer had done the work that the same work would have cost $18,000.00. When questioned whether or not the City could be protected against too large of a bill, it was noted that there was a possibility of working in a percentage of which the hourly rate could not go over. Bill suggested that the Council work with all of there consultants on an hourly basis instead of a percentage basis to save money. He noted that he works for 50 townships and 2 cities and that it works out quite well. Don Cornelius state that he did not see that there was a guarantee that the costs would not go over what we have been charged in the past. He stated that he would like to see a hourly charge with a maximum ceiling tied to it be used to provide extra control over the system. Donatus Vetsch asked about the conflict of interest with Bill Radzwill working for the City of Albertville and Otsego. Bill state that if this became a problem he would have to withdraw completely from the matter, serving neither city. Bill at this time suggested that a joint meeting with the City of Otsego be schedule so there is more working together. He stated that he felt that there was more conflict between Otsego and Elk River than there is between Albertville and Otsego. He noted that there had been a joint workshop between Elk River and Otsego and he has served as an advisor to Otsego while looking at their situation. Issues he feels that the cities will be looking at are Police Protection and Fire Service. The matter of "annexation" was brought up. he would suggest sitting down together before a noting that he felt that he would be able to get hand. Bill noted that conflict arose, to the issue at Bill noted that he does 50% of the contested Annexations in the State of Minnesota. And further noted that in the case of 3 (. (. (. '-. ".,..,-..--.....:- --. .#._,,~'" ..." .,,~_......__.._._- '~'_-'''--'-_.... ,.--.'.....,-. ..~_.-. -_." .,......'-"__~i. . 1. Albertville and Otsego the matter would handle through a detachment which could not be done unless both parties were in agreement and if there was an exchange of land from both parties. He was questioned if this was true even in the event that it was requested by the property owners. Bill noted that the only basis this would be done on is in the area of health matters i.e. the ability to provide public services. In this instance the detachment would be allowed. He pointed out that the City of Albertville would have a hard time arguing the point because of the amount of agriculture land the City has left to develop within the corporate boundaries. Duane Berning asked Bob Miller if he agreed with Bill r s opinion. He stated that yes he agreed, that there would need to be joint powers agreement as there have been in Rogers and Hassen. The matter of fees were then discussed. Bob Miller stated that he charges $50.00 a hour for Council meetings and $95.00 a hour for non related meetings. Bill stated that he charges $11010.00 a hour and all of his expenses are included in this fee, noting that there are no hidden costs. Don asked what he would charge for meetings. It was noted that he would charge $1100.00 an hour. Bill noted that he charges $42.00 a hour for administrative services to cover staff time. There was a question regarding how much was legal fees ran in 1990. It was noted that some of these cost are charged to projects, councilor general budget line items. Jim Walsh stated that he did not feel that the City Attorney was needed at every meeting. He state the if an issue needed the City Attorney's attention he can be notified for the next meeting or a request for information can be faxed to him prior to the meeting. It was pointed out that if there are items on the Agenda then it should be scheduled so that there are just there for the legal portion of the meeting and not the whole thing. Noting that timing of he appearance makes for the most efficient meeting. Bill stated that he has been at all of Otesgo's meetings since there is no end of problems because of the change to "City" status. Bill also stated that he is sure that he can save the bucks for the City. Bill was asked if Council members are able to contact him as 4 , ~ - "...~"""_""___'.,,:"~. _ ........ _I' 'r'_ >___.....~.__ ...._ ...__-..'~' _.', j,_ ,_. . . , they see fit. He stated that normally just the Mayor and the City Administrator are the only ones who contact him as a way to keep the costs down. Bob Miller stated the he felt that there was an advantage of the City Attorney being at th~ meeting because they can get a better feel for the wishes of the Council and from the comments that are made and explanations that are given. An example he gave was the Ordinance for the Outdoor Bars. A question .was raised regarding how much the bill normally runs for Council meetings. Bob stated that this was a fair question noting the normally the bill runs about $150.00 a meeting or $300.00 a month. Bob did note that he was willing to attend every meeting or only on an as needed basis. which ever is the Council's wishes. Bob again pointed out that he has been the City Attorney for three and a half years, noting that he has done the more mundane work not bond work, He noted that he prepares the needed resolutions, planning and zoning documents, developer agreements and letter of credits to name some of the work he does. He does not have the experience in structuring the bond sales and does not want to try to do them. Bob stressed his expertise in other areas of municipal work. land use and subdivision work and has been before the State Supreme Court. He noted that he has a strong background of information and a good working relationship with the other staff. He also stated that he feels that he has done a good job for the City for an efficient cost. He stated that he would like to work for the City, but noted that if the City wants someone to do bonding work, then he suggested that Bill could do the work. Don Cornelius stated that he did not doubt that Bob had done a good job, He also noted that he felt the issue regarding have the local attorney do the bond counsel work, tax increment financing, as well as the general legal work rather confusing. Donatus Vetsch agreed with Don Cornelius and stated that he wanted to assure Bob Miller that he thought he had been doing a good job. Duane Berning asked Bob Miller is there was a problem with the City Attorney doing the bond work. Bob stated that he has not seen this practice in other cities he is aware of. Bill also informed the Council that had three years of Engineering at Purdue University, before he went on to pursue his degree in Law. He stated that he feels that the engineering 5 - ~ - ._"...~~~._...",... .- -...... ~ - - ..~..'....-,.".. ..-_.~ ~.........-......:......,,,,~.~..~;;. ~ -._~. _>___.......,........,,-""~~.~t.. _,;_...... .....;_ . , background gives him projects from start to finish. Duane then asked Bill if there would be a conflict with meetings. Bill stated that usually no conflict because he tries to schedule them so there is no overlap in schedules. Bob Miller stated to the Council that most of them know him since he has been the City Attorney for the past 3.5 years and noted that his former law partner had been the attorney for 7 years before coming a judge. He noted that the long history can work to the City's advantage. He stated that he has 30 years of experience and is currently working for the City of Rogers and has been the City Attorney there for 25 years. Bill Radzwil1 stated that he was close at hand and was also available by car phone when he is not in his office. Don Cornelius asked that the appointment of City Attorney be held off until Tuesday night's meeting so the Council could have some time to think about the information that was given at the meeting. Mayor Walsh asked why the Council would want to hold off making the decision since that the was purpose of the meeting. Don again stated that he wanted time to think about the matter some more. Donatus Vetsch agreed with Don Cornelius. A motion was made to table the decision on the City Attorney until the Tuesday, January 22nd meeting, The motion was made by Donatus Vetsch and seconded by Don Cornelius. The minutes should . reflect that Barthel, Cornelius and Vetsch voted to table the decision and Berning voted to abstain. The motion carried. The matter of the contract with the Building Inspector was brought up again by Duane Berning. He asked if there was a problem if the contract was not discussed until Tuesday evening. Maureen stated that she did not think there was a problem with delaying the approval of the contract and suggested that the City Attorney draft the contract. Mayor Walsh stated he felt that any contract being entered into between the City and personnel should be drafted at the employee's expense and not the City's. Maureen stated that she had used the wrong term when she said "draft", rather should have said "review". Mayor Walsh then asked Maureen who had prepared the contract between the City Administrator and the City. She noted that she had provided some of the document, which was then reviewed and changes made by Bob Miller, the City Attorney, at the Council's request. At this time it was noted that there was no other discussion noted for the meeting so the meeting had come to a conclusion. 6 , ~ ~ Mayor Walsh stated that he felt the meeting had provided a good discussion and felt that the City could save money for the developer by having the City Attorney do as much of the bonding work as possible. He stated that he felt that the City is lagging in the areas of commercial and retail development and hopefully by keeping bonding costs down there will be an increase in this type of development. . Mayor Walsh also noted that the residential development that the City is experiencing adds to the school age population and puts added burden on the School District. The matter of having the City Attorney at every meeting for the entire meeting was discussed again. Mayor Walsh restated his feelings that it is not necessary. There was some discussion regarding where the savings is if Bob Miller charges $50.00 per hour for meetings and Bill Radzwill charges $100.00 per meeting. Mayor Walsh stated that the savings come into the picture during the financing of bonds, because these costs are past on to developers and then to the tax payers at the time of purchasing land. Donatus Vetsch asked that Maureen get together information on a past bond issue (approximately $450,000.00) to see what actual cost are on the issue. Don Cornelius stated that he felt that there was expertise the City is paying for because the Financial Advisor and Bond Counsel do this type of work everyday. Mayor Walsh compared it to the "baseball player and agent... He noted that until agents became involved in the process that player were making less money, now it is costing the owners more money, which is then passed onto the ticket buyers. Mayor Walsh again stated the Bill Radzwil1 has assured him that the City will be saving money having him do the work. Don Cornelius stated that he felt that Juran and Moody has more knowledge of the market and bonding process. Mayor Walsh said maybe not. The issue of having current financial statements will help keep tabs on the expenses incurred for legal work as well as other areas. Some other general discussion was again reviewed. There was a question regarding Bill Radzwill was referring to the City of Buffalo or Buffalo Township. Buffalo was not listed in Bill's letter. Finally Mayor Walsh noted that he is willing to turn around his decision as he had in the case of Kevin Mealhouse. He noted 7 - ~ . ..""...,........"...;.... '~__4 _" .._~-__..;..............~,__ ._0... ,.. . _'~" .~,~.:...r..-...I..........,...~.. . . that his was proud to. change his opinion. He also noted that he wants to work closely with Kevin in the case of the construction of the new school. Mayor Walsh informed the Council that he would be meeting with Thore Meyer on Tuesday morning to discuss storm drainage and sanitary sewer expansion. A motion was made to adjourn. The motion was made by Donatus Vetsch and seconded by Don Cornelius. All were in favor and the motion adjourned. ~d VJ/ 8