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1988-08-02 Minutes of Informational Mtg Re: County Ditch No. 9 , , INFORMATIONAL MEETI~ ON OOUNTY DITCH NUMBER 9 AOOUST 2, 1988 Mayor Loretta Roden called the informational meeting regarding County Ditch NumtJer 9 to order and introduced Thore Meyer of Meyer-Rohlin, who was to present the finding of facts regarding the storm water run off from the WESTWIND development. The list of those attending has been attached to the back of this docurrent. Thore explained that this meeting had been called at the County Commissioner r s and Di tch 9 Commi tteP...s request so that the property owners along County Ditches Numbers 9 and 21 could hear what is being proposed for the area that had been the Michael Becker farm prior to being p.lrchased and developed by .John-('.;l€l()rge, Inc. Thore first introduced those present to the details of the plans for Phase I of WESTWIND and the proposal for the subsequent phases of II and III, which include the possible installation of a detention pond to hold the storm water run off. The discussion included these findings of facts: * That the development of WESn-./IND will be completed in phases, at which t:i.me storm sewer, streets, sewer and water will be desi@1ed to adequately handle the development as it OC'...curs. INFORMATION MEE'l'IOO PAGE 2 * That WESTWIND (Phase I) consist of 52 single-family lots, 4 9Altiple family lots and 14.2 acres of park land (Attachment A), which consists of approximately 18 acres of land. * That approximately two-thirds of the entire plat (105 acres) drains to the south into County Ditch 9, while the remaining one-third drains northeasterly into School Lake. * That in designing a system that can adequately handle rain for a development the Engineers design the storm sewer system for a five year storm Thore went on to explain that it is standard engineering practice to size storm sewer system in this manner because of the expense involved in installation. In the event that the storm brings the water faster then the sewer system can handel it temporary ponding ocx::urs in the street, which will then eventually drain away (typically water does not stand for more than an hour or so) . * That the purpose of a detention pond is to hold water in a confined area until the water can drain away at the same rate it would have if the land had been left in its natural state. This is accomplished by restricting the water and forcing it to outlet through a downsize culvert which is lccated at the bottom of the pond. * That the design of proposed detention pond was done only after doing the necessary calculations to determine the nUlnber of acre feet needed to adequately handle the storm water run-off from the WESTWIND development. The Engineers calculations indicat~ that the INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 3 pond needs to be approximately 11.5 acre feet to detention, which can be obtained in a variety of ways, either by a large shallow pond or a pond that takes up less land mass rot is roil t deeper to retain the water. * The Engineers explained that the actual design of the pond has not . been determined rot it appears that in all likelihood the pond would be developed so that the base of the pond would be approximately 2 feet above the base of the County Ditch and would have a substantial dike system around the three sides of it as well as around the entire park so not to create any hardship to the adjoining properties. (Attachment B). It is important to note that the detention pond would be done in conjunction with the park, knowing that in the event of heavY downpours the pond could have a potential t..o back up into the playing fields. * It was pointed out as an example that with the dike system around the pond that if water reached the top of the dike that the area would be holding some 45 acre feet or 4 times the amount of water going lllto the ditch, which is a reality to an unlikely extreme. At this time the discussion was opened for questions, which included some of the following: * Has the drainage system been adequately designed for Phases II and III? INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 4 Thore explained that the actual design of the detention pond/storm sewer system will be designed and calculated so that it will be able to handle the storm water run-off. It was also pointed out the definition of a 1021 year storm is 6 inches of rain in 24 hours. * Harry Welter, Mayor of St. Michael expressed his City r s concern regarding the impact of the City of Albertville r s water on Regal . Creek which runs through their corporate boundaries and asked what assurance they have that there will not be problems further down the road? Again it was pointed out that by the use of the detention pond the rate of discharge will not change, therefore the City of Michael should not receive any additional water from the City of Albertville. It was pointed out that the basis for this statement relys on the fact that the County ditch system is cleaned and is being maintained properly by the County Board, because it falls under their jurisdiction. * The question was asked regarding how the water would be controlled? Thore explained that the control for such a structure will be done by placing a culvert in at the bottom of the pond which would then let the water out at a prescribed rate. It was pointed out that there would be no gate valve lccated on the outlet to allow water to be released at a faster rate then allowed. INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 5 * Someone asked what the differences in elevations would be between the County ditch, the detention pond and the tops of the dikes? The floor of the ditch apPears to be at an elevation 944 feet above sea level J the base of the pond would be constructed at approximately 946 feet above sea level and the tops of the dikes would be about 3 or 4 feet . higher then the pond (or approximately 952 feet above sea level). * The concern was expressed that work would be done and the other land owners would not know anYthing about it. Ar lyn Nelson, County Commission, stated that under the proceedings of ditch law, any time work is done on a County ditch that the benefitting property owners IWSt receive notice of improvement. So those present, who are on the County ditch have the assurances that they will be aware of what is happening. * Someone questioned who would be responsible for cleaning out the ditch? It was pointed out that the City has no control over the cleaning of a County ditch, that it would be the responsibility of the Board to arrange for the cleaning and that work would be assessed back to the benefitting property owners 'once a Redetermination of Finding had been completed. , . INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 6 At this tiJre Thore reminded everyone that the original p.lrp06e for ditches were to RECLAIM lands for farming that without proper drainage would not be tillable. He also pointed out that these di tc'..hes were designed so that they followed the natural drainage ways, therefore not disrupting the laws of nature. And under current practices the ditches are also used for drainage outlet storm water J without the benefit of clear Statutory language to define what is acceptable practices. * One of the parties present pointed out that in fact the ditch is not draining properly because of not being cleaned out. It appears that the last time the ditch was cleaned out was in 1983. Ar lyn Nelson pointed out that the County does not go forth with ditch cleaning unless it is requested by those that will benefit from the work. * There was some questions regarding the City's sewer system and whether or not the storm water run-off could go through those lines? It was explained that the WES'IWIND project would be serviced with City sewer and water, rot that it is not allowable under Minnesota Pollution Control Agency regulations to discharge st..orm water run-off into the sewer sys-tP..m. INFORMATION MEETIOO PAGE 7 At this time City staff went through the materials which were handed out to the P9.rticipates in the meeting. The packet included the following: 1. A letter from Mr. George Yankoupe of John-George J Inc. discussing the platting of WESTWIND (Phase I) and its impact on County Ditch Number 9.; . 2. A letter from Meyer-Rohlin Engineers-Land Surveyors which provides the findings for the basis of the Yankoupe letter; J. . "//1 3. A portion of the minutes of the' /{ I /\! /. J 1988 County Board minutes regarding the City of Albertville's assurance that to take full liability/resPonsibility for findings of the Engineer with regards to the impact of Phase I on County Ditch Number 9; and 4. The City of Albertville's RESOLUTION RELATIOO TO SURFACE WATER IN WESTWIND DEVELOPMENT J which provides written assurance that the City of Albertville does indeed warrant the findings of the City Engineer and will accept liability and responsibility resulting from surface water drainage from proposed developrrent as such development (first phase) impacts on Ditch Number 9. The resolution provides additional assurances that as a condition of further development, the developer will need t..o join in a PI'OCP...ss which will include the interested parties (i. e. the City J Wright County J the drainage authority and the owners of benefitted landowners) to address the impact of Fhases II and II I, including INFORMATIC~ MEETING PAGE 8 phYE;ica 1 facil itiefc; > costs and other matters relating: to the proper and appropri3.t~e resolution oft-he drainage and discharge of su.rface WD.ters into Ditch Number ;:1. At this tirrJt.:': Bc.b Mi ller > the City AU..oITley, addressed the Gi ty' s st..andirJg on tbiJ'j lri[;ue. He p<)intoo out that the Council t;uppc)rts the findingc; of the FXJgineer and p3.ssed the resolution regardirJg this IrBtt.er af':i the vote of confidence in the findings. He pointf-.Jd out that the Ci ty has never taken Hie stand that a petition for outlet shcll.lld not be filed and in fact rieL forth aSfjUraIlCes Hlat prior to any future platting being apprcNed that t.he Ci 1:,y wil1 .[>rcx::;eed tnld~-,r the :3tatutory regulations for completing the process. TIle representative of the City of St. Michael stated that if their City waro not satisfied with the solutioDf.:j presented that they w.JUld be forced to st--<,:)P the water from draining through Regal Cn::,->ek. He stated that no one had eVF~r appr'.ach,:0 them to see if they approved of the drainage plan. It Wafj .:'.\gain POirlted out that the development of WESTWIND does not" char!g:e the natt.lral drainage flow bU.t rather changes the rates at which the wat,er l:I..II1fj, Lut that through the controls established throL-,gh th."; F:venings d' . ~ lSClJfjfj lJ)rlf; ShCli))d not h'ive any adverfje iIrlpclct on the peciple downstream of the devel':)l:>rnent. I t Has queGtioned whet,her or not the City of St. Michael was attempting tu t;!:,C'f.' A 1 rJE:t'1;vU]e from developing thrc)IJgh the prc"..::et;/3 of tying the; drainage i E;f-oUe up, There waf3 no rea 1 COlnrrent back in resp<:lnse to thiG sthternent. INF(iRl'1.ATION r1EB7I'nr; . , PAGE 9 At this time Bob Miller pointed out that the City of Albertville has ordered a feasibility report on the storm water drainage plan for the undeveloped areas of the City. I t is the City's intent to use the findings of this study to determine which is the best outlet for storm water run-off. In an effort to sl..urmarize the issue at hand, Bob reviewed with the parties present that the project (Phase I) is on the table, the engineering studies no adverse impact on Ditch 9. the City has agreed to take the . responsibility for Phase I and the City is currently undertaking the study for future storm water drainage. He asked what more needed to be done or said before the County and the land owners had enough assurances that the City is working in the best interest of those involved. Bob also explained that all coam.mities are faced with the problem of what to do with storm water and that in most situations the problems can be resolved without hurting anyone. Some other questions that where brought up included: * Who would maintain the detention pond? The group was informed that it would be part of the City's general maintenance program. The group was also informed that when the pond is drairJ.ed dry that the City will keep the aI'f"...a mowed 80 not to effect the detention pond st..orage space. INFORMATION MEETH-lJ . . PAGE 10 * Someone coomented on whether or not that meant the farmers would be doubled t..axes? It was explained that the maintenance of storm sewer systems is a regular maintenance i teln which makes up part of the tax levY. It was pointed out that the development will generate additional tax dollars which in effect will compensate for any additional costs. . * Someone asked if the City was planning on lining the base of the detention pond in the same fashion as the WasteWater Treatment Facility was lined? It was explained that there was no reason to go to that eXPense because the purpose of that liner is keep from contaminating the soils. Storm water run-off does not need to be separated and treated before discharging. Again the purpose of the detention pond was explained, that the reason for this type of system is to provide for short-term storage of water until the ditch or the ground around the ponds can take on the water. It was also pointed out that detention ponds are used in most cities and are accepted as a standard method of storm water removal. At this point someone expressed their concern that this issue has been taking place without anyone knowing about it. In an effort to clarify what has happened up to this point J Ar lyn Nelson presented a chronology of events. INFORMATION MEETING P~E 11 1. County Officials noticed that Preliminary Plat for the entire WESTWIND project showed outlet of water into County Ditch tbnber 9. 2. Representatives of the City and the Developer met with the County Board to explain the proposal and attelQpted to come up with a solution which would be satisfactory to all those involved. 3. Ar lyn Nelson called to order the meeting of the County Ditch 9 ocmnittee to review with them the issue of WESTWIND. This meeting was held at the Frankfort Town Hall. 4. The City and the developers met again with the County Board to discuss and update them on the events to date. I t was at this meeting that the City Attorney gave the City's assurance that Albertville would take the responsibility of liability .with regards to the impact of H1ase I on the County ditch. 5. The City of Albertville passed the resolution supporting the Attorney's assurances. 6. A meeting was held at the WESTWIND site with the County Ditch 9 Ccmni ttee J Ar lyn Nelson . City representatives and the developers to see hands on the effects to the ditch. It was at this meeting the City agreed to h06t the informational meeting. 7. The Information meeting was held. INFORMATION MEETIN3 PAGE 12 Ar lyn pclinted out that in order tfj st>op the work from rJE:ing done. the (f.>unty wou] d have to prove harm is rJE:ing done from the result of the improvement. There would have to a different finding of fact that the F,ngineer ," s report is incorrect and that these costs would have to be borne by those on the dit~h. It was her feelir~ that this was not n~~essary" p'jtential impact on the l"F'--@;ards to the::;e phases pref~ued the IX)jnt that Bob Miller again stated that the City realizes that Phaf~e 1] and I f] haVt'~ di tch and agree tha t before .;;my work is done with that the dit(:~h issue will have to be resolvwl. He this is required in the stat.ut(~ at; w'l J'lL; r~.;i ng reSI=>ons i b Ie af; a Cit,y. He st~ated that this waf; prc;bably just the beg inn :Lng in the ww rrJt'~et.ingc ly:gardir~ this issue and that the CH,y wi 11 tfj<ove cauUi)lJf;ly in making any decir::;ij.')nf:J. At this pcdnt Bob asked that the rrV.J.tter rJe wrapped up hy a sllpplrt~ of confidence in the findings of the meet. iDg. Hfe: asked that FtllYODf; f;t~rongly OPI)()f~ed to the ide.'::! indicat,f'..; it by a show of bands. The notef..i f~h()tdd r.;how that only one person raised their hand. There were no other comrrents so the meetir~ adjourned. ", darkenwald, inc. Industrial arid Commercial Real Estate m ""'trQl- 7767 N.E. River Road Elk River, Minnesota 55330 (612) 4jt~.go 8, 1988 darkenwald REAL ESTATE D ~right County Auditor Wright County Courthouse Buffalo, MN 55312 Dear Sir, R e : P I a I. 0 f We 5 t win d, C i t y 0 f ft. I b e r l v i I I e ('olmly Di tch 119 John George Inc. entirely by John is now the owner in the Southeast Section 2-120-24. prior to Becker. is a Minnesota Business Corporation that is owned F. Darkenwcdd and George W. Yankoupe. The corporation of the former Mike Becker farm consisting of 105 acres 1/4 of Section 35-121--:24 and the Northeast 1/4 of The Clemens Dehmers EstClte was the:.owner of the farlO The portion of the farm within the County 9 ditch watershed wa5 assessed for benefits when the ditch I"as fir'st constll.lcl.ed. The farm was also included in the 1983 assessment. An 18 acre portion of the farm was recently platted as Westwind. The plat lies entirely withi-n the City of Albertville. It is unlikely that the platted area would use the existing Ditch 9 as an outlet since the storm drainage outlet for the portion of the plat thC't draifls to the South would outlet onto relatively flat land at a distance of approximCltely 1760' from County Ditch 9. (cf. attached Engineer report. dated May 31, 1988) When, if and as SLlbsp.quent platting and development OCCUlS on the lands immediately west and south of the plat of Westwind, it mClY become (le<';t:l:osary to use Ditch 9 as an out.let for storm drClinC::lge. We '",ould like to therefore suggest that Clppropriate county representatives meet with our engineer to determine to what extent if any. it would be necessary to use Ditch 9 as an ou1:let. Based on their findings '",t? would then be in position to fi Ie an outlet petition and have the matter determined by the County Board in a timely fashion befor~ subsequent development occurs. We are prepared to meet with you and the County Board in oJde~ lo expedite handling of this matter. ~ Sincer ly, ~ ( , '-, i \ ~Lr-- Ger) ge W. YankOlJpe CAPT CEe USI" yTIET) Professional En!ineer MEMBER MINNEAPOLIS BOARD OF REALTORS , . MEYER-ROHLIN, INC. ENGINEERS-LAND SURVEYORS 1111 Hwy. 25N., Buffalo, Minn.55313 Phone 612-682-1781 May 31, 1988 TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: The former Becker farm located in the southwest corner of County Roads 19 and 37, Albertville, Minnesota, is currently being developed into proposed single-family residential, multiple-family residential, and commercial properties, to be known as Westwind Development. Concerns have been expressed regarding the impact of this development upon County Ditch NO.9, as it currently exists within the city of Albertville, Minnesota. County Ditch No. 9 starts approximately t mile south of County Road #37 and approximately t mile west of County Road #l9, and flows in a southerly direction. The existing conditions of County Ditch #9 are not conducive to a proper drainage flow. stagnant water now stands approximately 2 feet deep in the upper reaches of the ditch. Obviously the lower reaches of County Ditch #9 and the outlet ditches (County Ditch #21 and Regal Creek) need cleaning to provide proper operation. Phase I of the Westwind Development includes 52 single-family residential lots and 4 multiple residential lots. The drainage of the multiple lots is to the north, away from County Ditch #9. The 52 single-family residential lots will drain to the south and outlet onto overland flow approximately one-third of a mile from the start of County Ditch #9. Considering the condition of the existing County Ditch #9, the long distance of overland flow at a very flat gradient and the restricted outlet of the Phase I drainage, we would expect no appreciable impact upon County Ditch #9. At the time of the development of Phases II and III (the single-family residential portion only), a detention pond can be constructed, if deemed necessary. The proposed multiple residential and con~ercia1 areas of Phase II and III are designed to flow to the north and not included in the County Ditch #9 watershed. Respectfully submitted, 3!:~Y " ROHLIN, INC. \.. " . ,&u.~71(~ tJ ~ '- hore Meyer / sl cc: Darkenwald Real Estate City of Albertville Thore P. Meyer, Professional Engineer Robert Rohlin, Licensed Land Surveyor =c~lllewaert to appoInt Dr. Ronald Brown as Wright County Ccroner. as follows: Mc.~l pine, Sch ill ewaert, Engstrom Aye. Nel ~on Motion carried 3-1. \ '-.- - I' ' - - i'~ 2& -~..i . O.J.. 'Arii~n, Auditor/Treasurer, presented agenda items at 9:05 A.M. A lengthy d i :5 C Ll S S ion evolved on the Al b 2 r t../ ill e City II ';oJ est win d II P 1 :.:' item and its impact on County Ditch #9 with many interested partIes i~ attendance. Thore Meyer, as spokesffian, noted that since their previews County Board appearance on May 3rd, tney have completed 5c~e calculations and have submitted a letter to the developer and the City of Albertville analyzing their findings and their feeling that t~er2 will be no impact on County Ditch #9 from Phase I. He added that with Phases II ~ III they may have to consider a detention pond, so they would like some direction from the Board today. Nelson commented that the main issue is whether or not all systems are going to be able to accommodate the kind of water runoff from this size development in the wet years of the future as well d$ t~e present dry years. Arlien ~aij he had suggested to the developer at the recent meeting at the Town Hall to submit a Petition for an outlet far Ditch #9 similar to the situaticn with Ditch ~20 in Maple Lake a few ypars ago. MacPhall commented that he left that meeting thinking they would be submitting a petition as _ form of cooperation to handle the situation, but no ~etition was filed. He added that they maintain it would have no impact on the ditch, ~nd if the County finds that to be true, perhaps we do not have a problem. He said it should be made clear that any future develepment may result in delay and inconvenience to the developer and the impac~ becomes greater on Ditch #9. George Yankoupe, representing ~~~ developer made several statements clarifying the objective of ~ll three phases o~ the project. McAlpine commented th~~ the County is fully responsible for a County ditch. Ma~Phail said the County simply manages the ditches. Bu~ Miller, legal counsel far the City of Albertville, mad~ the statel:~nt that the Ci~y_~ould warrant to the County Board that should the data represented by their Engineer prove not to be trLle, the City would accept ful~ liab{li~;%r~sponsibility. Nelson stated that she would like the opportunity to convene a meeting of that local group of people who have had a historic interest in Ditch #9 including the people of St. Michael. Nelson then moved to table any further discussion about County Ditch #9.and the Westwind Plat until next week providing an opportunity tc meet wi~h the people of both Ditches 9 & 21 and the people of the St. Michael area. McAlpine seconded the motion and it carried unanimously by those present. Arlien presented the Board with ~ copy of a Resolution adopted by Ottertail County urging that Wright COLlnty consider a similar resolution voicing objection to the 1988 tax law and requesting their legislators to repeal that law and work for meaningful and effective property tax reform. Arlien Said he was not ~sking fer action on it today. He recommended they review it for a week and he will place it on the agenda again next week. On a motion by McAlpine, seconded by Schillewaert, all prasent voted to approve the application for Game ~ FiSh Agent for the Clear~ater Travel Plaza, Clearwater, MN. Paul Jordan, Woodland Township resident, met with the Beard to reques~ approval of an easement on Section 12 in the area of the County Park to construct a bridge on the property. Arlien said the matter was cleared ; .... t-. .... . __ _ Tl-' _, ,., .;. . .. . . . t::. . eln 0' ALlIIlTVILLI IeaOlut10ft 10. ~ 1I8OLU~IOI llLATIMG TO SURPACI .AftI II .."'IID DlYlLOPIIBllf 88 IT RISOLVID by tb. City Council of th. City of Albertvill., COunty.' .c1gbt, Stat. of Minne.ot., .. follows. 1. Th.t th. d..tloper. of tb.t cert.in residential .nd co..ercial d...lo~.t ift tbe City of Alb.rtvill., co..only known .. the ....twiad a...lo....t. ba.. r.cord.d th. pl.t of tb. fir.t pU.. of tbe proj.." Mi. plat '..ignat.d .. .W..tvind.. 2. 'Tb.t ..y.r-Iobli., Inc., tb. Ingin..r. for tbe City of Alb.rtvill., ba.. r.port.' to tbi. Council tb.t tbe proposed drain.g. pl.n for ,ur'". .at.r for tb. fir.t pb... of the de.elo~ent ha. no appreciable iapact on Dr.inage Ditch No.9. fhat for .ub.equent pba... hlo.etia.. de.ign.ted Pba... II and III) the dev.loper. ,ropo.. to con.truct a r.tention pond to acco.-odat. dr.ina,. of aurface ..t.r. fro. tb.t p.rt of tb. project flowing i. a ,...~ally eoutb.rly direction. 3. Tb.t tb. Board of CO..i88ion.r. for wright County bav. .xpr....d con~.rn a. to'""tb. i.pact of th. w..twind Develop.ent on Drainage Ditch 10. I. ~. Council repr.sents to tbe County. ~~. Board of .rigbt County ~at .bould the data repre..nted by the City Ingin.er proy. not to be true (tb.t there i. no appreci.ble l.pact on Dr.inag. Ditcb Jo. I fro. the d..elopm.nt of the W..twind Pl.t), th.t tb. Clty would .cc.pt li.bility and r..pon.ibility r..ultlng froa .urf.ce vater dr.inage from the propo..d de.elopaent a. .ucb de..lo~.nt (first pbase) impacts on Drainage Ditcb 10. I. .. Th.t tb. City .hall require a. . condition for the furtber de.elopa.nt 0' tb. W..t.lnd project, that tbe developer. joln in . proc... wbic~ .ball lnvolv. tb. City, Wrigbt County, tb. dr.ina,e .utbority and own.r. of tbe b.nefitted land for Dltcb Ho. I, to .ddre.. tb. iapact of Ph.... II .nd III (or .ub.equ.nt pb.... inyolv" in tbe d.v.lopa_nt of the Westwind project), inc~udin, pby.ic.l f.cilitie., co.t. and other matters rel.tlng to tbe proper and approrriate resolution of the drain.ge and discbarge of .ucfac. .at.c, nto Drainag_ Ditch No.9. . 5. Th.~ tbe City ~ni.trator i. hereby directed to -1- ..- pre.ent to the Board of Co..iaaionera of Wright County and to the deyelopers a copy of this aesolution. Adopted tbie ~ dey of ~~______, 1988. ~~- Mayor (SIAL) rRR!,I.I!'J-CATI.pH I, Maureen Andrews, being the duly appointed Administrator/City Clert of tbe City of Albertville, hereby certify tbat tbe above .eeolutlon is a true and correct copy of a Resolution relating to surface waters of Westwind Project, duly adopted by the ~!~Y Council 01 tbe\~ity of Albert8ville, Minnesota, tbe _~_~ day of ---t~---~------' 198 . .... \ ) , \ t. ' . I ' \, . r, \ . t' . I . J I SIAL) iiiii~efi~~;;;-;:..l.._.~..J.j.i'l.L,,", Adaini;trator/City Clerk \. J -2- ..i,' Ii" Of) \'1\ EE-r- I WG 8-1- C5 AoId e.oS5 Q60~OlL: k~J~ aaLYt~ ~ /.~ Jill Clj. (/(/ 2li/(L~lV 5~~/ ~ U~~ JJ~L~ . - .'~.....:.IJ1. ~ ~L) 11 II !I II '! Ii ,I 'j : /